Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

    • CommentAuthorEsteban
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2006
     

    I have seen pictures of these posted on another topic. I have never seen anything like that. I am amazed and  feel these inormation deserves a topic apart.

    I invite those of you who know about this to please share info on it !

     

     

    •  
      CommentAuthorCori
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2006 edited
     
    Esteban , Earlier this year I went to Puerto Rico to visit my parents and I met with a friend  that owns several of these "andadura" horses, which are non other then (PPR) criollo horses. They have the 4 beat gait born into them like all PPR horses. The difference is that instead of useing them for the show ring, they train them in andadura.

    These riders mount the andadura horses bareback and with an aficiador ( long shank with a chain across the muzzle/nose).
    My friend invited me to see the andaura races in a new track in Humacao. The first thing that caught my interest was the speed in which these horses were traveling. The next thing was the size of these horses, In my opinion some were very small and looked   young. 

    Well to make a long story short we were there until 5am and watched in amazement race after race, listening to REGGETON all night long.

    I will not try this anytime soon , those crazy days are over for this old dog, I need my bones intact.

    Cori
    • CommentAuthorEsteban
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2006
     

    Hi Cori,

    That is all very interesting. The small size of the horses in the pictures really caught my eye. And they truly look criollo to me.

    It would be nice if you posted them here.

    rgds,

    Estebn

  1.  

    These pictures were recently taken by photographer Jo-Ann Ferré. She attended a Andadura event in Puerto Rico.

      AndaduraRace.100_6945.jpg
      AndaduraRc.Ferrum.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorCori
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2006
     
    Nice Pics Rafael,
    It's just like I said Bareback and with an aficiador you could see it clearly in these pics.
    The speeds have been clocked at over 33mph on some of these horses. Now some people are exporting Standarbred horses from the USA to compete with the Criollos.

    Cori
    • CommentAuthorcoloso
    • CommentTimeDec 16th 2006
     

    Cori,

    When i lived in Puerto Rico people where allways talking about a Paso Fino Horse that was bought by a lawyer and the laweyers kids had him do andaduras as the horse was pinto and could not be competed and there was said by people all the time that he was clocked at over 45 mph. I had the oportunity to see one of his sons and he was also a pinto and he was fast in andadura i saw him clocked at 38mph.

    One of my friends in PR has a Pinto that is very good in Paso Corto and is very fast.

    Regards,

    Daniel Muniz

    • CommentAuthorTWallace
    • CommentTimeJan 5th 2007
     

    You can speed race them against Tennesee Walkers and other horses like Icelandics which also "tolt"...

    Tolt, rack or this what they are calling "Andadura"..... is all the same gait... 

    Crossing on Standardbreds will increase the size of the horses, which would be desireable for some people.

     

    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeJan 15th 2007
     
    I wouldn't think these are all the same gait, the tolt, rack and andadura. I would appreciate it if someone who is very knowledgeable with the andadura horses in Puerto Rico would comment here on this forum. I think there are some Puerto Rican paso finos, pure bred, for all intents and purposes, that can andadura. Rawlie 
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007
     

    Hi Rawlie, Great to see ya!

    The andadura gait is described as a PACE, and the best native or "Criollo" horses will look like they are PACING at Extreme speed, , BUT there is a diference, and that is the LACK OF SUSPENSION in the Criollo andadura gait.

    In other words NO UP AND DOWN MOVEMENT.

    the Tolt is like a largo, a tad less lateral than the andadura, but like the andadura it has NO SUSPENSION.

    At the Moment, Standardbred Pacers from the usa, as well as Sadlebred and walking horses compete. they are not identified as Walkers, standardbred or Sadle horses, instead they call them all "Extranjeros" ( Foreighners) and Many of the pacers do not have a suspension free gait, So while the crillos will largo and corto when traveling slower, the pacers just pace WITH SUSPENSION at any spead.  Their is no diference for pacers and andadura when racing, as they both sound the same, ( Like a two beat lateral gait) BUT, their is a BIG and important difference in my opinion, and that is the SUSPENSION, the difference between suffering a jaring up and down movement, and enjoying a ride on what feels like a magic flying carpet.

    On another note, a fast Largo and the andadura gait will both sound as a 2 beat lateral gait, and they may even look the same, but a high speed still camera will reveal that the andaura gait is not a perfect lateral gait and that in deed the legs of either lateral side will not strike tha ground at the exact same moment, but that the rear leg will stike slightly before the front.

    The caps are to stress words, not to yell.

    also I want to thank Rafael Arbelo for allowing me the oportunity to share my Andadura experience with all in the next issue of his fabulous Magazine "Paso Fino a Puerto Rican Breed"

    some pics comming soon :-)

    Best wishes to all,

    Jo-Ann

    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    picture of Criollo andadura horse,

    Bam Bam riden by Ricardo Curbero, Photo taken on the 3rd of Sep 2006 at Cabo Rojo's Hacienda el Alamo

     

      andadura-bambam-RicardoCurbero.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    Andaura picture of Criollo Horse,

    All the pics so far are those I took on Sep 3 of 2006

    Fantasma, riden by Joel Lopez

      andadura-Fantasma.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    andadura horse outside the coliseum at the Feria de Campo 2006 in Hatillo, Puerto Rico

      andadura-feriadecampo.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    Andadura Horse,

    "La diabla " riden by Murillo at the sep 3, 2006 races at Hacienda el Alamo.

    This mare is a pacer or "Extranjera as they call them.

    While they do have different categories for criollo and Extranjero horses,

    they are also crossing the two types, and in the futire I will let you all know what the results look like :-)

      andadura-ladiabla.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    For those interested, therte are also two website for andadura horses,

    the First is www.andadura.com, and the other is the federation of andadura and paso horses, but I am sad to say they are both exclusively in Spanish.

    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    Criollo andadura horse, Montana, rider Millo

    Pic also from Sep 3 2006

      andadura-montana-Millo.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007
     
    Hi Jo-Ann, so nice to see you also, and Denisse. I think it's great. I'd miss ya'll sorely if you stayed away, and I ain't just saying that. Thank you so much for that explanation and observation. I will have to agree on all of what you say as it makes perfect sense. I knew there had to be distinct but subtle differences that people were overlooking. Can't wait to read the article, and can't wait for Rafael's magazine this month. It's things like this that I think are important to clarify so that people understand that there are differences indeed. I'll have to get my hands on some video. The more ya'll talk about this stuff in Puerto Rico, the more I want to come see for myself. Thanks for the photo of BamBam, what a name! Rawlie
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    Notice this extranjero Horse, is Pacing at slow spead, while the criollo horse would corto or largo at slower speed...

     

      andadura-slow.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007
     

    Hi Rawlie, you know what also, I am sooooo thrilled to see Denise and Charlie on this board as well.

    That day I went to Pasopedigree and saw is closed I thought he was leaving us, I saw he is posting pics of his new Baby Pasos ! I have been waiting so long to see updates on his pasos!

    Awesome!

    Jo-Ann

    ps on the andaduras, I forgot to say that the saddlebred or walkers do gait at slow speed without the suspension, and they are big, like 17 or 18 hands. I need an education on these US breeds as I know little about them, but I have a pic of one and you can see the tail is in a different style, sorta up like. I'll post the pic, and someone maybe can identify the exact breed of the horse.

     

    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2007 edited
     

    OK, this is horse that I suspect is T. Walker or Saddlebred, note the tail too...

    Can anyone identify the breed? these pics taken January 28 2007 at Hacienda el alamo.

      andadura-saddlewalker3.jpg
    • CommentAuthorjuli
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2007
     

    Hello again everyone!

    Interesting topic & I love the photos. As an aside - some, not all Icelandics are 5 gaited & that 5th gear is a true pace.

    What is absolutely fascinating to me is how some of these andadura horses are so very similar in movement & body type to the Icelandic - the 2 photos Rafael posted & the one from Ferrum of the horse "Montana"  bear a very striking resemblance to an Icelandic.

    I have always wondered if way back when these horses shared a common ancestor - I'm even more curious after seeing the pictures & hearing the description of the size. Icelandics are often referred to as the horse in a pony sized suit, & these horses seem to also fit that desrption quite well.

    Does anyone know where there might be video of the races available to view?

    Respectfully,

    Juli

     

    •  
      CommentAuthorFerrum
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2007 edited
     

    Hi Juli,

    fpcpapr.com/historia.htm

     at the bottom of this page, you can click on the pics and see video of corto, largo, and andadura gaits.I took the pics, but the video is taken by someone else.

    Besy wishes,

    Jo-Ann

    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeJul 19th 2008
     

    I've added the photos back in of the Andaduras. They are great action photos taken by Ferrum. Their reach is amazing. They really give their all; and the riders!!! They're riding bareback....that need for speed!

    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeJul 21st 2008
     

    Ride 'em cowboy!

    • CommentAuthorreubenT
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2008
     
    that is some awesome speed, and some major extension. I'm not sure I'd be at ease bareback at that speed, too easy to slip off if they make a fast move in a different direction. But to use a saddle on one going like that would take special attention to sutable fit so as to not impede motion. But I have one question that would end up being a training ?. Why the long shanks? As I understand training the goal is usually to reduce cue pressue to a minimum to get a given response. And it being easier to get that light cue response on a more sensitive horse. Arabs and paso fino's being some of the most sensative horses. Longer shanks is going the other way. It impresses me as perhaps a tradition based on poor training techniqies. I suppose those doing it have their reasons, or is it done just bacuase it's always been done that way? I've been around some people who always do things the way they were taught without asking questions, like an unthinking robot. But I'm one to analize what's being done and if something looks like it could be done better, or easier, I'll try it, dosn't matter how long standing a tradition is. I admire those people who do reining with no bridal, and even win a show that way, I think that's getting close to the ultimate in light cue response. (I know, that takes a lot of riding time, about have to be getting paid to ride in order to spend the time.
    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeDec 1st 2008
     

    I don't know the answer to that Reuben, but I suspect there's some sort of logic behind it. I'll have to ponder it for awhile.

    • CommentAuthorjuli
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2008
     

    As far as I can see all of the horses pictured are being ridden in a mechanical hackamore - no mouthpiece. So no cue to the mouth - it's all in the nose, chin, & poll. Shanked bits are all about leverage & the longer the shank, the quicker the signal is sent.

     

    It has long been believed in the western disciplines that the longer shanked bits are indicative of a horse that has achieved the highest level of training as a minimal cue is all that is necessary to get a response from these bits. These long shanked bits were never designed, nor should they ever be used in the two handed direct, or "plow rein" style.

     

    I myself always wondered why it is believed that a horse is considered "finished" in a bit - it just seems to me that the horse that responds to body & leg cues in a bitless bridle is the ultimate example of horse/human communication.

    •  
      CommentAuthorRawlie
    • CommentTimeDec 2nd 2008
     

    I have a feeling they have their own specific reasons for using what they do. Some of them look like gravity might launch them right into flight without the horse.

    • CommentAuthorreubenT
    • CommentTimeDec 4th 2008
     
    Oh yah, I wasn't looking close enough to notice the lack of a bit. That kind of changes the forces applied. But it still seems like it shouldn't require that much leverage to stop a horse if the horse has been trained to stop properly. I wonder if the urge to GO is so strong with a horse that goes that fast, it may take a bit stronger signals to overcome that urge. I suspect without that it may take a little extra skill in training or a little different tecnique to get a solid stop. Yes I'm well aware of the shanked bit/neck reining Vs snaffle/direct rein thing. I see an awful lot of uneducated trail riders using a shanked bit and direct reining it, some of the horses put up with it, some protest, and some nontrainers use hold downs to control the protest.

    I think in using that much leverage they're using hard pressure to almost force the horse into responding. Looks like around 4-5 to 1 leverage, so a 5 lb pull would equal 20-25 lb squeeze. While ideally the reponse should come from the mind with only a slight light cue required, a slight touch and/or quiet command should be enough. Kind of like a good reining horse, the reins hang loose and are only barely used. Now I might have use for some real leverage in the training process, but it had better not be needed for long, It'd just be used as the final stage of a progressive cue, and if handled right would soon be no longer needed.

    It's that way all through the horse industry, it's very rare that I see a really well trained horse. And I've heard some good professional trainers who teach training lament the rarity of good training. Some claiming an extreemly small percentage of horses being ridden are actually trained properly. Like 2-5%. I've seen just a few that stand out as it were, and when I see one they is a beauty to behold. The way they're so in tune with their rider it's like poetry in motion. And the horse is usually obviously enjoying it.